Org Resilience in a Time of Fascism

This was THE BEST way to close out the 5th season of the podcast, y'all. I got to sit down and talk with one of my favorite organizational leaders, Markasa Tucker-Harris. We talk about how her and her team are lingering in their celebrations, resting, and continuing their work to put power back into Milwaukee communities through participatory budgets.

GUEST BIO

Markasa Tucker-Harris is the Executive Director of the African American Roundtable (AART). An award-winning organizer and master facilitator, she is trained in conflict mediation, de-escalation, and circle facilitation. She has a wealth of knowledge related to nonprofit organizational development, infrastructure, and sustainability.  Markasa has a background in media relations and a Bachelor of Arts degree in mass communications from Grambling State University, where she graduated Cum Laude. She is the advisory co-chair of the State Voices’ Wisconsin c3 Table, Wisconsin Civic Power Table and serves as a Movement Advisor for Funders for Justice. 

CONTACT GUEST
African American Roundtable Website: https://aartmke.org/

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MUSIC: 22,000 by Spirit Paris McIntyre


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Transcript

UNKNOWN: 0:00

Ah.

SPEAKER_00: 0:42

Hello fellow weird and wild ones. It has been a minute. So much has evolved and changed about your lovely host and me, Goddess, and Sunseed community since season four of the podcast. And I am stoked to share some of the dopest folks I've met, and some of the been in community with, and have learned from along the way in season five of the SSC podcast. So grab your drink, get your snacky snacks, and gather your homies for the end times. End of what? I'm really not sure, but I really hope it's fascism. But I digress, different conversation. Let's get on with the show. You are inspiring. You are inspiring. You are inspiring at least 22,000 times a day. Keisa Tucker-Harris is the executive director of the African American Roundtable, an award-winning organizer, yes, and master facilitator. She is trained in conflict mediation, de-escalation, and circle facilitation. She has a wealth of knowledge related to nonprofit organizational development, infrastructure, and sustainability. Marquesa has a background in media relations and a Bachelor of Arts degree in mass communications from Grambling State University. Represent! Where she graduated. Cum laude. She is the advisory co-chair of the state voices, Wisconsin C3 table, Wisconsin civil power table, and serves as a movement advisor for funders for justice. Ah, Shay. Hey, you do so much in my case. Thank you so much. Thank you for being on the Sunseed Community Podcast. We start this podcast with your bio, but then a little bit about you. So the question, our check-in question today is, who are you bringing into this space with you today? Yeah, yeah. Thanks for reading that bio. Sometimes, you know, when you hear your bio, it's like, the things, the things, the things, you know. And a person, being a person of faith, I have to just remember, like, these things in my back. But also this current is like, girl, you are not doing this by yourself. Thank God. Thank God you are not. So who am I bringing with me to this space? You know, goddess, I got to bring in my daughter, Zoe. She has just been blowing my socks off, okay? Blowing my socks off. This girl is doing so much. And I've been thinking about legacy and how she is definitely my living legacy right now. She did last Friday, it was a four-year-old murdered a couple of weeks ago here in Milwaukee, a seven-year-old abducted. And I had just come back from a prayer service and I was sharing this with her. And she was like, mom, I feel like God is telling me I need to do a prayer service. Like youth need to do it. And I was like, You know, I don't know if I've heard of that here in Milwaukee. You hear church pastors and people like, you know, community leaders. But I don't know that I've heard and not to say that young people are community leaders, but adult community leaders. But I don't know if I heard young people doing it. And so she organized it in less than three weeks, raised over eleven hundred dollars, did it at a well-known park here in Milwaukee that has was actually a part of the site of the uprising here in Milwaukee. And she had four or five other Black young ladies helping her. There was a young Black man, but he ended up having to leave. And it was powerful. Powerful, powerful. She had so many beautiful people out. She gave away free grocery, had a partner doing that. And just yesterday, someone reached out and was like, hey, I would love to know. I know I didn't get to come to your event. Media came. Media came, radio, newspaper. And they say, hey, we weren't able to come out last week, Friday, but we want to know what was the impact? How did it go? And like, what's your plan for what's next? And so that's just a piece of what she's up to. So I definitely bring her into this space with me. I also bring Dontre Hamilton into this space with me. The black man who was murdered in April, 2014, who, when he took his last breath, I tell people I took like a new breath that brought me more deeper into organizing work. And I bring my mama, my daddy, my niece, my nephew, my husband, my bonus children, my family, my people, the folks in Milwaukee. I bring them all into this space with me today. Yes. Oh, that is beautiful. And like, as you were talking about, uh, your daughter doing this organizing, creating this, I got the tingles. Okay. Okay. Future leader, leader now, not even future, like in the moment, like now loving this right now, right now, right now, right now. Um, ah, I love the continuation of the legacy. I think for me, I'm actually bringing in my grandma today. She did a lot in community back home in Des Moines, Iowa. And my family actually, before I was born, before I was even thought about, my family lived in Milwaukee. And yeah, so for a time. Yes. And so, yeah. Every time I kind of meet with you, I think about that. I don't think I've ever told you that, but yeah, my mom, she was actually telling me stories last year about her experiences in Milwaukee, going from Iowa to Milwaukee as a young girl. So I'm bringing bits and pieces of my mom's experience as a youth in Milwaukee into this space, but then also my grandma, Juanita Slaughter, into this space. So So a little bit of context setting. We actually met at my former job, but then we continued to be in kind of collaboration, working with African American Roundtable on some safety and security stuff. And I knew that when I got back on the podcast, like I wanted in some way you to be a part of it. I have always been like, amazed not amazed i feel like that's not the right word because it's not a surprise but it's i'm just always so like damn the way marquesa moves through every space she's in with like just such presence and also rocking a fit every time i don't know how you do it every time but like there is some good i got some good stylists i got some good stylists yeah i'm like why are you shopping but But also just the way that you are so here for whatever space you are in. And whether you're tired, whether there's something happening, there's a way in which you can still hold that and also be in the space. That I'm just like, oh, yeah, this is how I want to move when I'm in community. So thank you for that. Yeah. So I think I wanna start by naming that although this year is the worst sociopolitical moment I have ever been in in my 32 years, there is something about it that also feels familiar and not completely like unfamiliar to me. Like there's something in my DNA that tells me like, ancestors know what's up. Like they're whispering. I've been using the analogy of a frog in a slowly boiling pot of water. Like we know we're in something. It's getting hotter and hotter. What are your thoughts? Do these times feel unprecedented? I know like you get in your emails all the time, like, hope you're doing well in these unprecedented times. And I'm like, I don't know if they're like unprecedented, but they are unprecedented. It's both. It's both. so good of a question especially in happy black august goddess happy black august yes and so i was on a black man build um pe popular education call last night and we are studying um revolutionary suicide talking huey p newton and um Some of the studies, some of the things that I read, whether it was the call before last or this one, was when we're talking about Black August, we're talking about, I think, Jomo from Bold talked about from 1969 when Hoover decided, oh, these Black folks are doing too much. We're going to develop COINTELPRO. And from 1969, he mentioned to 1979 was this moment of repression. So when you talk about it not being unfamiliar because you're right. I believe we have been in this place where there was a time where they were trying to shut us up, shut us down, enclose us in the fear mongering, the things that happened to the Black Panthers and other Black leaders during that time where Black August was brought to play. Like, oh, we need this. We need to be reminded to study to fast and to train during these times to go back, to read the Huey Peas, to read the Malcolm Xs, to bring forward what is necessary to ground us to move forward in the times that seem for some unprecedented. But like you said, ancestors have been there before and some people currently living with us. are going through something very eerily familiar to what we are seeing now. I often reference when I came into this work doing police reform, when Dontre was murdered, it's like, man, we wanna make sure that black people are never murdered again by cops. What policies do we need to change? What cameras do we need to install? So I did that for three to four years. And then I started to think, goddess, this feels eerily familiar. My parents are from Mississippi. They were children when Emmett Till was murdered in Mississippi. And so some of the same things that my parents witnessed, went through, saw, the same thing that I was fighting against 30-some years later. These things... have already happened. Yes, some of them seem more blatant, but these are things, the undertones, my husband calls it white fear versus white supremacy. These things have already been present. They're just manifesting in different ways. And some of them, As people in the church say, like, you know, the devil can't do anything new. Like all the tricks that they're doing, this stuff is not new. They just have different faces, a different tactic or a different spin on it. But these people have been out here doing these things to us since the beginning of time. Yeah. And so, yeah, that it does to me feel familiar. Yeah. It looks familiar, smells familiar. Unfortunately, all of those things as well. Yes. Yeah, absolutely. I agree. So my family is before Iowa. We were also from Mississippi, like near Biloxi. Yeah. we were part of the Great Migration and there's a reason why we had to leave. There's stories of why we had to leave. And I think for me, the stories that I heard both as an adult and as a child around our experiences, like my ancestors' experiences, feel like they're just like having this like different ring to it right now. Like in my 32 years, the government itself hasn't directly attacked in the way that it is now in terms of like full frontal assault. It's been doing it in a whole bunch of other ways, but so blatantly. And I think what's coming up for me is like, when my family decided to leave Mississippi, what was the moment when they were like, okay, no more, we need to go? Like, what will be that moment for me? What will be the moment where that's what's coming online for me? And when I talk to like, you know, my loved ones, folks with different backgrounds from different races, there is a difference between what people of color, like what's coming up for them in terms of like some, something's in the water. Ancestors are like, we need to, we need to move different this time versus like, you know, some of like white bodied folks that I know, like my loved ones that are like, this feels unprecedented, but I don't like, I, What am I tapping to ancestrally that like is telling me like something right here? Like, I'm not explaining that very well, but there's just something here that I'm just like, my ancestors know this. and it's gonna get worse so like what do like what do I need to do different how do I need to be building community um in a different way what do I need to be talking about with my loved ones about how we support each other and care for each other and protect each other in ways that we might not have been talking about before that's right um Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So what have you been doing for yourself and for your colleagues at African American Roundtable to nourish your spirits since the election? Yeah, I'll start with what are we doing here at our... As I sit in our office, you know, I remember... after the election and how we kind of looked at each other. And one of the things that Devin Anderson, our campaign and membership director said is like, we're going to keep doing what we've been doing. We're going to continue to organize people. We're going to continue to build power and we're going to, you know, there's some other things that we thought about, like, yeah, we have to evaluate. We have to look to see what we've done, what needs to be sharpened, what needs to be changed, how, like you said, we need to move differently. So, um, Some of the things that we've done was just like double down on our organizing work and like getting clarity around what that needs to look like. He often says, hey, you know, if we had enough people, we would have won by now. So it's like, what do we need to be doing to bring in more people to win, to build power, to win the campaigns that we need to support changing the material conditions on the ground? And so that's one big thing that we've been doing. And it nourishes us because it's an opportunity to bring other people in, open up our hands and like expand our capacity and to also bring people into alignment around abolition facing lifestyles, you know, and work. Another thing is, you know, at the end of every year, we get about two weeks off and that you know, is replenishment and nourishing. Last year when the RNC was in Milwaukee, we took a week off and I'm like, you know what? We're taking a week off again this year. And so although that wasn't after the elections, it's just a thing that we have added because of the conditions and when the folks came in and rained down in our space. And then I would also say, you know, We continue to encourage staff to care for themselves. You know, what does that look like? I'm seeing more of my staff take off work and seeing more of my staff do that. Make requests, you know, I'm going to work remote today. Today is a remote day, even though I'm supposed to be in person, you know, so I'm hearing people get clear around more of their boundaries and their values as well. And then I would also say our chaplain, we have an art chaplain. Her name is Rhonda Hill and she comes in and provides cultural grounding and support. So we've implemented more of that in our organizing space, staff meeting spaces and other meetings. And it's been so delicious. It's been so delicious.

UNKNOWN: 18:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 18:44

And then I will also say some ways that we are nourishing each other is to continue to find spaces not to work, you know, but still build and deepen our relationships outside of work. Like we're going on a boat ride very soon together to spend time, you know. One other thing that we did that I think will support our nourishment is our chaplain. She came in. We just launched our youth membership. Hey, Shay. Super excited about that. And I was like, we need to be turning up. We need to be celebrating. Like this is a joyous occasion. We've been talking about bringing youth into our work since like 2019, 2019. We've been talking about this. And so to have the full manifestation of not just youth in our work, but membership where they actually belong to and have a political home. And so the art chaplain was telling us, like I said, you know, I want to really create like a celebratory space. And so she was asking us these questions and she said, What would it look like if we just lingered a little bit longer in celebration? What would it look like if we just paused? Yeah, because, you know, the culture, you know, around just like production work, this other thing, you know, I got so much to program and got to keep going, got to do. What what does it what can add to us by pausing to linger in that and taking notice, really feeling how that lands in your body? exploring what's happening in your like psychological nervous system, like all of these things to sit in celebration. And so I got curious with my Alicia, our program and logistics person who you've also worked with. How can we add that into our dream space? How can we add hitting more of those levers around celebration? Yeah. And I think that that is going to be very nourishing, you know, just again, taking more of that productivity and worker bee mentality and adding some more joy, the more time to just be with each other without that agenda of work. Yes. That is really important. So those are some ways that we've been trying to nourish ourselves. What have I been doing personally? Yeah. Creating these spacious time blocks on my calendar, sticking to those things. Like I just went on a rest retreat earlier this year and really bringing those things forward, which is just create some space sometimes where you don't have an agenda to just be. Practicing that well for my daughter. For other people who are watching me, the staff, to be able to model that versus just talking. People actually see that this is becoming your ritual, your routine. This is how you move now. Also, practicing some resiliency around just going outside and looking up. Looking up, feel the wind, peace, sun, kiss. Take in, let all your five senses be activated. That's something else I'm doing. also being in space with beautiful black women has been for my girlfriends like it is necessary for at least me to be connecting more deeply with a home girl of mine at least once every two weeks whether it's a two one to two hour call because one hour is never enough right No, not with the homies. Never enough. In person, a Zoom space, going for a walk, all of those things, like those fill me up deeply, you know, where we're not talking about work. You know, we're talking about all of the things, but it's not like this one singular thing. And if it is, so be it. Being in space with people in worship, like I haven't been in the churches where I'm not a member of a particular church and just recently last year last july i started reinserting myself in that space good my soul so that's been really nourishing and then i last year started to try i started to learn how to swim and i'm going to be revisiting that soon so You know, picking up a new survival skill, you know, but also I love the ocean and I can't really engage with her as much as I like. I don't know how to swim. Okay. Have you heard of Ocean Swim School? No. Okay. Okay. Okay, I'm going to send you. I'm going to send you. We'll come back to that. We'll come back. We'll come back. That is so beautiful. And the question around lingering in the celebration. What a juicy question. And I think that that idea of just not only lingering in the celebration, but pausing And like adapting, like knowing, okay, so, you know, Trump's being elected, we're going to take a week off. Like being able to adapt to meet what you know is going to be coming up for your team is a practice. That is very intentional. And so I don't want to like, you know, brush over the fact that like moving like that in an organization especially in an organization that does the kind of work you do has to be so intentional otherwise it can get missed and like glossed over and then we just go into that like worker bee mentality of like we gotta go we gotta do this we gotta do this can't stop won't stop like I truly feel like it's now is not the time to brush over what we are moving through. We need to be like attuned to it and adapting to it. Cause those are the, those are the, the, the gifts of what our body is telling us about what state we are in and how we need to be moving. Um, and so I think that that is like so vital. Um, Are there any other ways you would add that, like, why doing those things, like lingering in the celebration, adapting to the needs of your organization, like the staff, more specifically the staff of your organization, is vital to the work? Because this leads right into healing justice, like, period. Yeah, it makes me think of Adrienne Marie Brown and these emergent strategies, you know, creating space for the emergent. Also being attuned enough to discern what is necessary in these moments. And also just slowing down enough to feel you and your humanity. What is it that you need? It's probably not going to be too much farther from what your staff needs. So if you are feeling this as you slow down enough, if they can't slow down, you better take some time to slow down as the leader of the organization to just feel.

UNKNOWN: 26:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 26:18

what would help us to show up better for ourselves, for those that we are connected to relationally, whether it's staff, family, friends, loved ones, because that all shapes how we show up in this place, along with what is going to support the mission and the vision. That's what we're here for, right? So it's like, if we're not doing our own oxygen masks first, checking in on those around us, how we're showing up, impacting people, and then how that overall is impacting the work. If we don't take those kind of measures and that kind of intentionality, some of these organizations may not be around for the long haul, right? And also, what patterns do we need to disrupt? What patterns do we need to disrupt to support moving in a way that is going to carry us through some longevity, through some tough times. Right. And I think the working on top of working on top of working is not going to cut it. It's just not. And I believe in rest and I also believe in rigor. So what is the balance as well as we ain't going to be laying down all day. I believe in Tracy Hersey. I believe in resting and going to laying down. And I also believe in, um, moving in a way that supports getting what we need, but also this revolutionary fight that we have to be in. Yes, yes. And so, you know, we've talked about like creating more spacious timelines in our work so that we have more space to do this. And I also recognize and hold the tension of people are dying daily. I hold the tension of the material conditions that causes four-year-olds to be killed, seven-year-olds to be abducted. And it's like, man, how do we slow down when all of those things are happening? And it's a choice that we have to be in daily because something emergent may come up and we may have to respond with rapid response. And then where's the moments when we can take a breath and then allow comrades in the community. Maybe it's the Office of Violence Prevention or other people, CVI workers, to go and respond to those other things while we take respite. You know, it's the ebb and flows in the community. Boom, boom, boom. And so staying true to our mission and vision is what can help us to create the emergence strategies and things that need to come up in order for us to move differently to really support what we need in these moments. It's vital. It's vital. Yes, absolutely. I think, and I'm not going to get into it because there's so much more we have to talk about. I think there's also something here about like when we are go, go, go around the organizing work that we're doing or like the work we're, like whatever work it may be, I find that when I am so deep in that and I don't take time for myself to be with who I am outside of the work, I can't apply fully what I'm doing at my job in my day-to-day life. And how I want to move, I want to be able to apply the things that I'm moving toward as someone who wants to support organizers and leaders with um with and like bringing in healing justice into their work i want to be able to practice a lot on my day today i want to do safety and security plans with my loved ones and not just with organizations um and when i'm so invested in like the work like the nine to five the thing like i um I can't linger in what it feels to embody that in my day-to-day. You touching something? You touching something? You touching something? Let me just add one more thing and we can move. Yes, please. When I went on my respiratory and I went through Action Lab in October to New York, one thing that I got really clear about You know, you were talking about, I want to be able to do some of this stuff with other people and not just for movement. Movement is deserving, but so are my people, my intimate circle of people. And what would it take to get there? And one thing that I got clear about is like spaciousness. Can you create more space where you are right now as the executive director of an organization in Milwaukee at this moment? I can create some more space, but the space that I'm looking for, I'm not going to, the space that I deeply long for, it can't be doing this role. And I've become very, I've become very clear about that. Am I leaving tomorrow? No. Am I leaving next year? No, I'm not. But I am becoming more clear about what it's going to take to get closer to the deeper thing that I long for. Yes. Oh my gosh. Okay. We could go down this path. Oh, that was... Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Um... Okay, as people working inside the nonprofit sector and philanthropy, we have been seeing and experiencing how those in movement are putting out fires on all fronts. We've already talked about this a little bit. This includes navigating grant cuts and funders going silent, supporting staff navigating crises outside of work due to increased attacks, and overall trying to keep the work they are doing going while navigating constant internal organizational shifts in times like these whether it is it easy for us to forget about tending to ourselves and our people just people seeing people in their humanity seeing the divine in each other um you know people in philanthropy people in non-profit these are all divine beings right You know what I'm saying? Like they, they are, they are, there is a sense of God created in the way that I view the world is God created all beings on this planet. And with that, although there's been a lot of tainting, a lot of trauma to how these divine beings show up, everybody has a need that they're trying to get met. And, and within that and all the trauma and all of the mess and the flow, laws and all the other things, I think that it can also be easy to forget. Even though all of these circumstantial things, all of these people with all of these different needs are around me and within my spaces, how can I myself show up in this one space that I'm in to take care of this thing? without having to put out all the 50 million fires on the fronts. We know that the fear mongering is designed for us to be running like chickens with our heads cut off in all of the places. And like I said, so much is so necessary. It's so much is so necessary. And so I also wonder, do we forget the power in unity? Like I said, so there can be the ebbs and flows. This organization does this, you know, the ecosystem of our communities, of our cities, you know, have we forgotten that? what it's going to take to really get to the place that we're building, this new world. Are we thinking about all the tenants that are necessary for us to get there? Or are we just in this reactionary mode? When can we get more strategic? Who can pull away? Who can steal away to do that? Even if it's within your own organization. Like this is our second time going through deep strategic planning. We're in year three of the first one and we're already starting and preparing for the next three years. It's like, that's the kind of important work that I don't want us to forget. The importance of strategy, the importance of unity, the importance of not running to every fire to put out and being mission aligned. Being a mission aligned and not drifting to the 50 million things that are calling you, which can be very hard, But then it's like, who can then I can be in community with to do like an ecosystem map? How can we be responding? How can we be responding to this? And I even think about with the hat that I was telling you about before we started, even with residents like in my neighborhood, how can I be developing these ecosystems to not just be thinking about the one foot in front of our other? I need to be thinking way further down the line with folks. And how am I preparing my daughter who's going to be going off to college in a different state? How do I prepare her in these times? So like not forgetting about the times that we are in and the preparation and the work that is necessary to keep us 10 toes down with the refreshment, refueling, nourishment to do the things that this moment is calling us to do. Yes. And how to answer. Yes. I want to pause on this question. going back to what you're talking about on the ecosystem of care. So like not like doing, like making sure we're mission aligned while also creating an ecosystem of care so that other organizations that we are aligned with, we can support them who are doing work maybe in a different lane, but still getting to the same. Can you share more about like what you've maybe seen that looking like or what you hope, like envision that looking like?

UNKNOWN: 36:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 36:24

Yeah, I think I have an example around that with the asset map that we've created here at the African-American Roundtable for the northwest side of Milwaukee where we organize. It was birthed from us organizing around a city budget and saying like, y'all need to divest from police and put the money back into the community. And they were like, so what particular? Who in the community? What business? What organization? Okay, we got you. So we went and developed an asset map, not just for the sake of that, but also for the sake of residents knowing that, there are things that can support you right here in this digital asset map. You can do it from your phone. You can do it from the computer. You can share with other people. And so these are things that people added, gave to us to put into this asset map that they said support the safety of their community. So there's healthcare providers, there's beauticians, there are food places, restaurants, churches, mosques, All of these places, libraries, all of these things that support folks needing to access things that are going to bring them safety. And so I would use that as an example. You know, where do you go when you need to get, you know, to buy soap? You know, you can go to the JBS African store down the street. So these kind of things I think are essential. And that is just one way that I would say that we have shown up to try to support creating this ecosystem that folks are familiar with, can easily access, that we're willing to invest our money in to keep the platform running and to add to it and not just let it sit on our website, not to just let it die, but to continue to bring this thing out. to say, this is your asset map and we make it what it is. Yes, I love this. And I don't want to emphasize some of the things you listed around, like, you know, barbershops, beauticians being on the list. Like, folks might ask, like, what does it have to do with safety? And it absolutely does. There's actually a Black woman, I don't know what state she was in, but she just opened up a beauty shop that the beauticians are also mental health providers. Come on! Yes! Double up? Yes!

UNKNOWN: 39:02

Come on!

SPEAKER_00: 39:03

Double tap that for me. Please tell me they take Medicaid, like, all the things. Like, I love this. I love it. But there is, like, when you know where to go to, like, get your hair done, like, that's a place of building community. That's where we talk about, like, what's going on in our lives. So that is a part of, like, safety networks. When we know where to buy our soaps at that actually are good for our skin, we know what areas, like, are more welcome of folks like us it is a part of safety it really is and just a sense of like belonging belonging absolutely absolutely so I want to move us into our first commercial break and again y'all know the drill please do not forward through the commercial these are organizations that I love and support so please check the commercial out and we will be back Peace, y'all. I'm Spirit Pierce McIntyre, Spirit, they, them, pronouns, and I'm really thrilled to have my piece 22,000 be the musical feature for Sunseed Community Podcasts Season 5. In addition to being a composer, I'm also a musician, cellist, lyricist, vocalist. I am an artist coach as well as a garment constructor. So if you want to find out more about me, You can check out my website, SpiritParisMcIntyre.com. You can also email me directly if you want to work together, McIntyreSpirit at gmail.com, M-C-I-N-T-Y-R-E-S-P-I-R-I-T at gmail.com. And you can stay up with me on IG at McIntyre Spirit. Peace, y'all. All right, so welcome back. Let's move into talking about organizational tactics. Some of the work that African American Roundtable really focuses on in organizing Milwaukeeans to get involved in their local government. One way is through participatory grant making. Why is it important for us to think local right now? Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Yeah, you know, while there's still some people in places that can move some things, like, you know, we know that not necessarily all skin folks are kin folks, but if you are able to move some things on the ground, those are the things right now, accessibly, that are going to touch your community, like life. in real time. And so when we think about city budgets, when we think about county budgets, those are the folks who are controlling the resources in our neighborhoods, whether or not your lights are going to be on on the city, you know, on the city streets, whether or not, you know, the bus, the transportation buses are going to be running, like those things affect us so much more closely. And not to say the things on federal levels don't, but these are people who are making decisions about your everyday life right here in your neighborhoods. And so when we talk about the participatory grant making or budgeting. This is a way for folks to really get involved, not just civically, but be a part of decision-making that supports what they want to see funded. It gives them the power to practice governance with each other, which we know we need to be in practice around that with one another. And it also gives us an opportunity to be in community, to get excited and see the creative ideas that people have that folks do not create space to hear what folks actually believe will support them in their needs and their community. And so, The city budget is supposed to be that vehicle, but that doesn't necessarily happen when people, you know, city departments already have their list of all the things that they want. And then when residents come to testify at these budget hearings, they already have a list of all the things they want. And so you come in, you tell them, and then it's like, well, there's really not no space for you, Ms. Johnson, to get this thing. And so this participatory budgeting opportunity gives Ms. Johnson an opportunity to say, hey, Mr. Willie, I would love to present a project for a community library, like one of those little library posts in my neighborhood, because I see young kids all the time sitting in this little area, and I would love for them to have books. You know, this is an opportunity for her to bring forth that idea, to write it out, and then for her neighbors to decide whether or not they want to see that library and to get her money to support that. And so what a way to build community. What a way to bring to life projects that they truly care about with the money that belongs to us. The$600,000 that we just won through participatory budgeting. Hey, yes, people. Linger in that. Now we won through fighting through our Invest Divest campaign, Liberate MKE over the last five and a half, six years. You know, that's our money. That was the ARPA money, the American Rescue Plan Act dollars. That money was supposed to come here to do that thing. And so what a way to come in and just swoop Take that money on in and say, all right, people, you all decide what those projects are going to be. You all decide how that money is going to be split. You all make those decisions and show city government what we can do. Show them your brilliance. Show them that you can govern yourself and you have the skill set to decide what is going to be necessary for your community and what should be funded. Yes. Congratulations. Have y'all celebrated? We did. We did. We did. We had a hangout. My brother owns a lounge. We did it at his dream lounge. Social. Super cute. And brought all of our friends over. But we're still taking moments, like I said, to linger in that just to... It's been a long fight. It's been a long fight. And so to see that process moving forward and to be tracking that implementation in those dollars, you know, it's excitement and joy to me all the time. And also seeing residents starting to get excited is also just a way for us to keep it going. Oh, my gosh. I'm sure that you already have, like, beautiful moments of, like, neighbors coming to you with, like, I have an idea and all the things. Amen. Was the asset map one of the things that kind of came as y'all started to do more work around participatory grant making? Was the asset map something that came out of that or was it something completely different? Yeah. The asset map came from the city saying like, yeah, you guys want us to divest from police, but where, what, where do you want us to put that money? And we said, we'll show you the businesses, the agencies, the organizations that are already doing safety work that you can be supporting. So there's like community organizations that are doing work, nonprofits, you know, who are doing work. And it's like, why can't we put money into those places that also have track records, you know, um, track records of actually, um, being reflective, but also being proactive to the things that we see happen in our community. And so the asset map was that answer to that, but also again, to give the community something to tangibly have, to see as an opportunity for them to find the things because this area where we are, it's been deeply divested from. And so you could look at it from the outside and say, there is nothing over here, but there is, and we call them jewels and assets. And so just to be able to lift those things up has been really, really awesome. Yeah, absolutely. And I'm sure the asset map will actually come in handy as you're figuring out what to do with the participatory grant making money that y'all did receive. Like, how do you, yeah, it all comes, it flows into each other. So what are some unexpected ways not having and having participatory grant making in public budgeting can affect communities? I think you've listed some of them. Yeah, so You don't get to the heart of what people really are longing for. You also miss out on the ideas of people. You take the process out of a vacuum and you broaden and expand that thing. I was just listening to somebody today on a panel and she was saying, bring a young person in. Just bring a young person in. Tell them what your situation is and just listen. Listen to the creativity, the ideas, the things that our brains have not thought about, so you miss out on creativity. And I'm not seeing a lot of things, fresh, new ideas emerge, you know, with some of the people who have been in office. It's the same status quo. There's nothing new that you guys are producing. And actually some of the things continue to be harmful. So it's like, where can we create that space? So it's like, you lose the opportunity also for people to be civically engaged. You know, people... We pay taxes. I am your boss, Mayor. I am your boss, Alderperson. And so it robs folks of the opportunity to be civically engaged as well. It also robs the greater community of what could be birthed from the participatory budgeting money. Because again, if you're not hearing people's ideas, that means you're not creating spaces for those things to be possibly funded through this vehicle. And so our community suffers because it misses out on these things that could be that are not because you keep spending money on police. Yeah. You keep not listening to the will of the people, which is actually, I want more money to go into mental health. I want it to go into not... police resource officers in school but to counselors in school and so you know you miss out on so much creativity so much newer opportunity opportunities that will bring a sense of safety thriving creativity community and civic engagement opportunities for people to really help to change the conditions on the ground in Milwaukee yeah Absolutely. Participatory grantmaking really brings out those gems, those assets that you talked about, and lets the folks shine and be a part of their community in ways that they may be limited to. So yeah, absolutely. Okay. So this question I've been really looking forward to talking about with you. Cause I, yeah, I'm just excited. I was like, maybe we'll get to like history of Bill Lockett. How do you think tactics like participatory grant-making reflect community led power building throughout our history as black people? Yeah. So, you know, It makes me think about, you know, and I'm not always, I'm not completely familiar, but when you hear about like the village, you know, how we've been together, come together to do things. When you think about, when you hear about stories about how folks moved in Africa, you know, this village mentality, you have this thing, you have that, or even Native, right? Yeah. indigenous communities where it's like we have all of these things that we come and bring together to support us around the decision power decision making that we can make together what is the thing that we all need it's coming it's coming together this unifying this sharing the load you bring your thing I bring my thing you know this mutual understanding and reciprocity um this practicing governance without people swooping in to do it for you. That's coming in and capturing folks and tell you you're bad and we're gonna put you over here. Having those spaces to move through conflict generatively as well. And also what can come up from that in regards to that saying, we keep each other safe. having that communal space to move through things. It makes me think about even just like the maroon space that we're practicing with the round table. You know, we bring in our own safety support. We consensus basings around like how we move our budget, how we're spending money as well, who we're giving to as far as like community sponsorships. You know, it reminds me of the space that we're creating, this maroon space where white folks are not, hovering over us to tell us like how to spend money, you know, getting these general operating dollars and spending it in a way that supports what we hear community saying. Also the joy that comes from us being able to move in with this autonomy and this sovereignty in this space and what that reverberates out to our membership and how they get to see how we move and how they participate in that as well. Because what I'm hearing from people, And our community is like, you know, so much unlearning when they come to our space. Man, you know, it's not how it was at the one job. And we didn't get to do that there. And so the joy, the relaxation in your body. that comes and an opportunity for more voices to be brought into it. The more and more voices that we hear, the more and more ways we're going to find all of the things that we need to source from to get to where we're going to build the things that we need necessary. Like again, just the status quo, the hierarchy where it's only this many people making decisions versus all of these people to do all of these things, I think is really powerful and also just makes me think about indigenous community, African communities, and how they have done these things in the past and how I long for us to continue to do those things moving forward. Yeah, absolutely. I think it kind of also speaks to what you've woven in throughout our time together this far rounds, like listening to the youth and like listening to folks of all ages and what possibilities come out of having multi generations, um, coming together to like pour into community and like build power within community. Um, what is possible and, um, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Um, are there any, uh, I think I have this question later, but now I'm going to ask it. Are there any folks within, um, milwaukee that you know are near and dear to your heart around like the the legacy of a black organizing black leadership either they don't have to be black either but like yeah like who holds that history for you and it doesn't even have to really be in milwaukee yeah some of those comrades have left but i would i would start off with my my staff I would start off with my staff. We have been building, the round table was started in 2012 and I wasn't a part of that iteration. So I stand on the shoulders of, you know, those leaders who helped to create that space for us. Leaders like Alexis Anderson-Reed who helped to build the table, Jennifer Epps Addison, Dr. Biko Baker, Ms. Anita Johnson, an amazing respected elder. Those people, Mike Wilder, who held the roundtable for years until I took it over, Angela Lange of Block, Dr. Cass Bowers, who leads a communications-based organization, but also is a dope organizer, Maya Neal, who is running the Wisconsin Civic Power Table, who is an amazing organizer. These are the people, Devin Anderson, our campaign and membership director, Raisha Farmer, our community program manager, those are the people. And then our members, you know, who are helping to carry it on. So from 2012 to the iteration of 2017, when I came on and took it in, you know, really reshaped it and really expanded it to now we have staff, seven staff to now we're expanding to 80 plus members, you know, those are the people. Those are the people who I respect and who I see also, you know, Metcalf Community Bridges, also some really brilliant organizers there as well. Sunseed. Not Sunseekers, Sunseekers is also a Black trans organization doing work here as well, El Halo. Just some really amazing folks doing some really amazing work in Milwaukee that I hold near and dear. M. Adams, who used to be a part of Freedom, Inc. in Madison, but now is a part of Movement for Black Lives. These folks, the Denise Perrys with Black Organized leadership and dignity just this leadership just epic center of space for black people to learn deep embodied transformative work you know in the organizers that they are helping to develop across the country you know how I came into that work so those are some of the people that I think about and then you know as like an ancestor if I can bring this person in is Mother Harriet Mother Harriet you know The rigor that she had to have around the work that she did, the rest that she did have to take and make space for to make those journeys over and over and over again. Her deep wisdom, the way she moved, how she didn't move, who she did and didn't move with, how she trusted to get to this place, the place where she, you know, the thing she risked. The things she risked, the things she risked over and over for not just herself, but for me, for you, for our people. I bring Mother Harriet, who's at my back. I love that she was able to transition surrounded by loved ones. There's something about that that... like her rigor throughout her life and her dedication to both herself and then her people, like our people, but then being able to like live the last, you know, part of her days surrounded by loved ones. And it wasn't a home field. Like it was meant for like to bring in people. Like she never stopped. Like- She never stopped. She never stopped. Yeah. It's who she was. Yeah, it's who she was. Yeah. Thank you. Okay, let me get to these extra questions I was supposed to be asking. We're almost there. You're doing a great job. Thank you. I needed that information the last 15 minutes. Okay. Okay. So I think I want to bring us back to the participatory grant making. What are three things you recommend people who are just getting started in participatory grant making or who are trying to push for a participatory grant making they need to consider or do? Mm-hmm. Yeah, the first thing I would say is do your research, learn about it. Participatorybudgeting.org is a place that I would suggest people to learn about, contact them, get on their newsletter and become more familiar with the process, more familiar with the process and then reach out to other people who've already done it. who've already been there and grab wisdom from them. And then find ways that you can practice this. What are some small ways you can practice this? For us, we decided with our own grant making dollars, our own general operating money to do it ourselves. So when the city said, you know, when we were fighting for this back in 2019, 2020, we demand participatory budgeting or grant making for residents in the city of Milwaukee. And when they didn't do it, they, you know, they, tap danced around and everything. So we said, oh, okay, no worries. We got this. We're going to show you. And so, yeah, we did some research. We talked to the folks in Durham. We talked to the people in Seattle. How did you all do this? What can we learn from you to bring forward? And let's do it. And so we took$40,000 of our general ops money and we said, we're going to run a participatory budgeting process. And so that's what we did. And so I would definitely say, Find the people who've done it. Be at their feet. Ask the questions. Get curious. Where can you practice this yourself? Can you practice it with some people in your community? We're going to put aside$50. We're going to put it in a pot and we're going to decide how these young people want to spend it for this project they want to do.$1,000 over a year time. How can we practice this? We don't have to wait for people to do this. We can do this. You know how much money is in the Black community? Stop it. We can do this. We can do this. And so those would be the three things that I would suggest as ways that we can, that folks can, if they're curious about this, how they can get started. Yeah. To tack on to that, is there anything you would suggest as folks are getting into organizing, like participatory grantmaking or other types of work where you might have regular contact with local, federal, whatever? Are there ways that you suggest that they care for themselves and the folks that they're doing the work with? You know... Don't do it alone. Don't do it alone. Be in partnership and collaboration with people whose values align with yours. When you're out of alignment, that's going to cause a lot of disruption. Emotional, mental, physical, find people. And even when you are in alignment with people, you will get some of that too, but you're going to get way more. You're going to get way more. Also, what tools are you bringing forth as you're in spaces, conversations, disappointments? What tools are you bringing forth to support you in the way that things are panning out, whether it's good or bad, you know, as you may view it that way? I would also say... Yeah, just continue to learn. Continue to learn. Who do you need to talk to about it? Hey, let me just run this by you. Don't be in a silo. Don't be in a silo. Talk with other folks. Hear other people's ideas. And also take these elected officials that you may have to work with with a grain of salt. Take them with a grain of salt. step back, take your breaths, you know, because what we're learning and what we know is we have to be in some type of relationship with these people. You know, they hold power. They have access to resources that we want. So we got to be putting demands on people and especially folks with power and taking care of ourselves at the same time. You know, if That thing that you keep going back to the same office, you keep talking about that same thing. Okay, let's go back and figure out some different tactics. These are not working. These are not working. Let me figure out some new things or you know what? This action that we did is not cutting it. What could we have done to been sharper? Debrief with yourself and with others and just keep sharpening, keep refining to support those times when you do need to step back and say, What did I need to do better? What do I need to do to take care of myself in these situations? But those debriefs are going to also be a lifesaver as well. Let's not keep making the same mistakes. Let's not keep doing that. That's, you know, that's, that's not wise. Yeah. That's my way. My way. Well, please tell us about your current offerings. What is African-American Roundtable up to and how can we support your work? Delicious. Thanks for asking. So we, like I said, just launched youth membership. Super duper exciting for 13 to 19 year olds. We are offering a political home for young people to come in, to learn through skill ups, training, some development for them to be able to facilitate, bring in their homies to learn and to grow. together and to begin to run some type of campaign next year. I don't know what it's going to be. I can't wait to hear what the young people are going to share with us. And so... That's one of our current works that we're up to creating space for them for some social. So if youth organizing is your thing, you're like, Ooh, I would love to hear, or, you know, you're curious about it. You're moving into it. We love to chat because we love to learn and we'd love to share what we have learned thus far. Campaign development and leadership development. So we are going to be running a new campaign. We are sunsetting liberate MKE, our invest divest campaign, and we are preparing to launch a new one. This one we're, building with our Northwest side leaders. We have a cohort. We're teaching them campaign development, leadership development, conflict skills, all of those things, because we know conflict will arise. How do we move through that without destroying the whole campaign, without destroying the organization, without destroying ourselves? Like we need those tools to keep going. And so we plan to launch a food safety campaign. justice campaign next year, sometime in the near future. So we're doing a lot of good work behind the scenes to get there, having conversations, again, teaching our leaders how to lead the work. As we are growing our members, we want them to be leading that work. We offer a conflict transformation series to our members as well. We were supported by by, I don't know how to pronounce William's last name. William, there's this toolkit I can definitely share later, but really went after our organization went through conflict, came in and really supported us in ways and like, what is your conflict archetype? How do you move through conflict? What are the stories that you tell yourself? And like really giving us some really awesome tools. And we found it so good. They recorded the sessions for us, gave us all the slide decks. And so we shared that back out with our members. And so we've been looking to find how can we share this with more people outside our members, because more than our members need Catholic transformation tools. And so that's something that we're thinking about supporting more widely in our community, these cohort experiences. So when we run these campaigns or these projects, we bring in leaders and we allow them in. to lead those spaces and give them the training. You know, we might bring in a consultant to bring some extra support in so that we can give them the tools they need to run the different pieces of the work that we're doing. We also, this participatory budgeting, just one, like I said, and so we are implementing, we're watching the implementation through the city. So we didn't actually get the money. The city of Milwaukee got the money. And so we are tracking that. We want to make sure that when the budget is short, nobody goes and tries to tip their little fingers into it. We're not doing that. So we have a cohort of leaders who are having the conversations with legislators, you know, with the, the older people and others who are supporting around, you know, the community education. So we provide these cohort experiences within our projects and our campaigns for leaders and residents to shine for them to lead. We're also doing that through the Northwest side campaign that I just told you about. And also we'll do that through our youth organizing, the, the, The leaders who are within the Youth Organizing Committee, they're called Activists in Residence, AIR for short. Our youth organizers came up with that. So super dope. So super dope. We just saw them facilitating a space a couple of weeks ago. Amazing. Amazing. Talking about mental health, how it affects them, what they need. Just beautiful. We also have a lot of deep organizing wisdom and expertise around campaigns, also around invest-divest campaigns, working with city officials. What does that look like? And we are a political home in Milwaukee. We are a political home for Black people, all Black people. We have a membership model that we started in 2022. People just give.$60 a year. It's just$60. And if they can't afford the$60, we got sponsors. You want to sponsor any members here in the city of Milwaukee? Get in touch with us and you can support the work on the ground here in Milwaukee. We do socials because we're not just going to do a lot of work. We're going to play. And then we have some committee leadership as well. So we have some of our members leading the book club. We're getting ready to start a... We do a convening every year for our membership. So we're having a committee for that. We have some members who are going to be leading in that space. So just the plethora of all those things. And yeah, I would say that I do have some fundraising experience. I definitely do. If you want to know or are curious how I helped to build an organization from 2017 with no budget to 2025 with over a million dollar budget. Call at me. How we created infrastructure, the culture that we've built to support leaders, to sustain, to keep people. My staff person who's been here the longest, he's been here since 2019. And I would say that that goes to his love for the work, but also the space that we've created to keep him here. The benefits that we've offered staff to keep them in this space, I think also speaks volumes to how we have created this container. If you're ever interested in what it looks like to have an advisor board. Talk to me about that. We went from, you know, a project and having just advisors to you guys are an advisory board to also what it looks like to be a fiscal organization. We are also a fiscally sponsored organization. What does that look like? What are the pieces, the processes? How did you get there, Marquesa? You know, why did you think that that was the right choice over you being a nonprofit? Tell me about all of those things. We're here for it. Yes, and you can learn more about African American Roundtable at aartmke.org. Please follow Marquesa, follow up with African American Roundtable. As we say goodbye, what is your heart carrying with you into this great big wild?

UNKNOWN: 1:11:17

Hmm.

SPEAKER_00: 1:11:19

Just deep gratitude and appreciation for this space to be in conversation with you around these really delicious questions that you provided to slow down my day and move away from work into conversation, into sharing, into listening, into being with you. I think those are some of the things that I'm carrying. I'm curious, what are you carrying? Oh, definitely gratitude for being able to talk with you again. And also just hearing about the beautiful network of people that surround you in Milwaukee. And it just, it warms my heart. I always have like a little place for Midwest in my heart. And so I'm carrying that with me and just thinking about the community building here in Colorado and looking forward to the day where there's all these names that I can like list out, like what you were talking about. And also just appreciation for the legacy of Black organizing and Black community work, period. Period. It is so rich and varied and yeah, yeah. Just savoring that for a bit. Saving that for a bit. Thank you so much, Marquesa, for being on the Sunsea Community Podcast. This has been absolutely wonderful. Thank you so much for having me. And thanks to your community who's listening. Really appreciate this time together. So good. So good. Thank you so much for watching this episode. I love you so much. I'm kissing. I'm kissing consensually. If you want that, I will ask you before kissing you. Thank you for listening to this episode of the podcast. I encourage you to meander on down to the description link below to share this episode, tip the guests, and follow all the magical folks that made this podcast possible. Deep gratitude to all of you. Even patting my myself a little bit on the back right now labor of love labor of love later gator and may you walk with the ancestors peace out 22,000 times a day 22,000 times a day