Sun Seed Community Podcast

S4E2 Trusting After Harm

November 19, 2022 Goddess/ Kiam Marcelo Junio/ Big Wind/ Julia Mallory/ Dalia Kinsey Season 4 Episode 2
Sun Seed Community Podcast
S4E2 Trusting After Harm
Show Notes Transcript

Is closure a myth? Do we have to be emotionally open with ALL the people we know? What is a healthy amount of acceptance? These are the questions that Big Wind, Dalia, Julia, Kiam and I talked about navigating.  I think we all ask these questions when trying to trust after harm and experiencing grief.  What we don't always talk about is how very human and natural these experiences and thoughts are.

Big Wind(they/them) was born at the headwaters of the Missouri River to A Northern Arapaho mother and Gros Ventre father in Great Falls, Montana. Big Wind was raised on the Wind River Reservation in Wyoming and enjoys being outdoors, hiking, and swimming in the nearest water way. As a Indigenous Two Spirit, they believe in the art of balancing both masculine and feminine energies, and how taping into that power, can lead to a more balanced approach to accountability and transformative justice. 

Dalia Kinsey(no pronouns) is a Registered Dietitian and creator of the Body Liberation for All podcast, a show dedicated to amplifying the health and happiness of LGBTQIA+ and BIPOC folx. On a mission to spread joy, reduce suffering, and eliminate health disparities in the QTBIPOC community, Dalia rejects diet culture (which is rooted in white supremacy) and teaches folks how to use nutrition as a self-care and personal empowerment tool.

Julia Mallory(she/they) is a storyteller and grief worker working with a range of mediums from text to textiles. Their latest book, Survivor’s Guilt is an archive of survivorship that chronicles generational grief through photographs, poetry, and prose. She is also the founder of the creative container, Black Mermaids and serves as the Senior Poetry Editor for Raising Mothers. Their work can be found in Barrelhouse, The Offing, the Black Speculative Arts Movement exhibition "Curating the End of the World: RED SPRING”, Stellium Literary Magazine, MadameNoire, and elsewhere. Their short, experimental film, Grief is the Glitch, premiered this spring on the film festival circuit.  

Kiam Marcelo Junio(they/them)  (b. Philippines) is a multimedia artist, holistic wellness coach, and a US Navy veteran. As an artist, Kiam explores themes of corporeality, identity, and time. Their work eludes rigid definitions of discipline, exploring and expressing through all five senses. Kiam also coaches creative professionals committed to developing healthy habits, a confident presence, and fulfilling relationships. Their mission is rooted in helping people create changes in their inner and outer worlds by developing deep self-knowledge, sustainable self-love, and authentic self-expression. Kiam envisions a world where artists lead the way, forging new paths for future generations. 


IG @BigWindRiver | Paypal AKABigWind T 


IG @thejuliamallory | CashApp $Blackmermaids | Website

IG @iamkiam| Venmo @iamkiam | Website




FB/IG: @Sunseedcommunity

Subscribe to SSC here


All right.

It is officially the fourth.

Season of the unseed community podcast.

And I'm so.

Honored and excited.

And also like, nervous, like.

Four new beings coming together for the first time.

Which is a lot for an episode.

And I'm so excited to talk about.

Gender fluidity.

And the magic that is our gender in deities.

I don't think that that conversation happens enough.

So thank you so much.

T Misha and then chat Toku for coming.

And well being here, energetically.

And virtually.


You gonna say y'all's bios.



I kind of just wanna like hype you up after I say your bio.

So, like, after I say your bio, can we just like, do like a, what,

what into the space? Like we'll all unmute and be like, oh,

Yeah,  get it. .

Is that cool.

Alex. Good practice. I love it. I love it. Okay. Dope.

All right, TIFF you're first Telin. First of all, welcome.


Mmm, TIFF Lynn pronouns. They them.

Is a queer Taiwanese multidimensional artists.

Living playing, working in unseated.

Alone a territory, Oakland, California.

As a young earth dragon.

Their proud mission is to help folks.

Break through limited belief systems.

Follow the path of authentic alignment.

And actualize their fullest potential.

They split their time organizing with API liberation spaces.

Facilitating healing through.

Immersive storytelling and performance art.

Reading Chinese astrology charts.

Dancing and laughing unapologetically amongst friends.

The role within this greater revolution is to be in an embodiment of


Is creation and abundance and to help guide people.

Into their gifts and unique.

Essence welcome.

What, what . Yeah.

That do you all the magic, all the support, all the support.


All right.

Next we have Tuku.

Pronouns, they them.

They are, are multidimensional, multi talented.

Queer transgender. Non-binary.

Neuro divergent and first generation Nigerian American.

They are multi gifted in healing.

Spirituality and energy arts.

And work as a healing centered plus.

Transformation coach.

Integrative holistic healer, spiritual consultant.

Psychic medium and trauma specialist.

By life. They are trauma.

Thriver by trade a holistic public health professional.

Artists by heart mystic by soul.

Medicine woman by calling and anything.

By choice in divine alignment.

They are also a healing.

Plus spirituality influencer.

And content creator for the musings of.

Them social media. Oh,

Mus of their social media platform.

And chattel Toku is passionate about guiding others and healing.

Releasing and to transmitting core wounds,

limiting beliefs and trauma.

Into embody liberation and alignment with authentic truth and the

highest self.

Woo. Beautiful.

I'm still sitting with some of the sentence, just like, oh, damn. Ooh.

Welcome. Thank you.

You all love. Woo woo. Get.

I'm doing a love dance. Y'all can't see it, but if I hope you feel it,


But I can also see it. So.

All right.

And next we have Misha.

Pronouns. They, she,

Misha is a queer non-binary multidimensional S.

Soul space, traversing,

many realms as a reclaim the medicine and power of their ancestors

from north India.

And Kashmir.

Or unlearning and unpacking the harm done by colonization,


Asked and other systems of oppression.

And co weaving the new way with others in the community who work to.

Re indigenize and PLA a pleasurable.

Future and create a more just and equitable.

Society where we uplift one another through abolishing the old.

And resurrecting communal care and inherent earth.

Slash cosmic medicine.

They create tangible offerings that teach yoga as a holistic way of


And decolonization.

As an embodied practice through their yoga studio.

Studio optimistic studio.

Yes. Yes.

How to the ancestors shout out to you Misha.

Get it. Get.

Thank you for going through all your bios again with me.

But I wanted to make sure that people.

Who are entering this space in different times. And.


Know who you are and know.

The the wisdom.

And the care that you're bringing into this space with you.

So thank you. Y'all.


Right. Let's let's first. I just wanna do like a quick check-in.

So the check-in question, we do want every season.

And I felt like this would be a really.

I felt, I felt called to have the question be.

Who are we bringing into the space with us? Like.

Who are ancestors, both blood and non, and the people that, you know,

hold us.

That we wanna, you know,

shadow to and give them some love and appreciation.

Thank you got it as I can go. So and shadow to who they,

them pronouns.

And I'm bringing with me my whole.

My whole spiritual team. Like we, we, we real deep, so .

As always there's my Chi, my ancestors Indio chick.

Echo audio form.

A grandma. He.

As well as all the spiritual animals that are with me, both the.

3D ones and the magical mystical ones, the dragon.

Dragons the Pegasus.

The angels that guide me and protect me.

There are so many, they are so many,

and I am so grateful to bring them in as well as the teachers from my

past. And those who will come.

In the future who continue to guide me and support me along the way.

So I that's, that's who I'm I'm coming with.


I, I, I.

I love that so much. Wow. .

What first came through my mind and my field is my two.

Well, my, my grandparents.

Which it had only been recently that I actually learned their,

their Chinese names.

You know, so yeah, it's a growing practice for me to name them.

As they've passed in the last 10 years,  my grandfather.

Paternal side links in.

Paternal side, coming from Fuso, China.

My grandmother.

Song Shirley G who recently passed four years ago.

But I still hold dear.


I'm thinking about my spirit animals, my spirit guides,

my four pillars of destiny within my own needle chart. The.

Young earth, dragon.

The yin would ox the young fire tiger and then the yin

would go.

That are many constellations myself and.

Give me continuous grace,

courage and conviction of the path that I lead.

Past, present and future.

Thank you.

Thank you. Appreci sharing. So.

Thank you, TIFF. That was so beautiful. And it really sparked in me.

That idea that I don't have names for a lot of my ancestors living in

the diaspora.

As I clinging to the language of.

My, my two mother lances, Kash, Mary Punjabi Hindi.

There's several languages that I clinging to and that aren't.

Immediately available to me,

but I always call in my benevolent ancestors and I know they're with


And I call in my steer spirit team, my art angels.

I call in shva and Chuck the, in this space,

I'm working with them a lot lately.

And I'll dive in more about how that relates to queerness and

transness for me.

But right now,

it's really important that I continue to call them into this space and

see what comes through. So, yeah. Thank you.

We have bringing all the goodness in.

Thank you Misha.

Ooh, I'm.

My, my great grandma and my grandma.

Always here with me. Juanita slaughter.

And Samantha Woods, my mother's side.

And also I'm.

Sh she's still here living, but she is always roll.

Like rolling with me. .

My auntie Shirley, who.

Really is my elder and my mentor.

In, in this practice called life.

And this practice called.

Living as a black body in this earth, in this point in time,

while also being a celestial being.

so shout to auntie Shirley.

And I feel like I'm bringing in.

I'm kind of jealous. I don't have a dragon by, by the end of this.

I hope I can like roll out on that dragon. .

People came with drag. I'm like, what? I didn't know.

We could do all this. .

But I feel like I'm bringing some loved ones that are still on this

earth with me.

As we figure out what it means to be transitioning from.

Adulthood into elderhood.

And that it does not mean that we have to be perfect.

So I'm holding that too.

mm-hmm  I know it's so letting go perfectionism.

Yes. Woo.

I feel that yes, absolutely.

Okay. So the first question I have.

Amisha, you kind of touched on this a little bit, but.

How did your exploration and gender fluidity within deities begin?

I can, I can jump in.

I would say it began.

With a deep desire for Seva.

For my community. So to serve my community.

And with my mission being to get indigenous medicine,

to as many folks that are left out of wellness, as I can.

I knew the trans and queer community is such a large part of that.

And it's part of my community.

So I offered this class called trans inclusive yoga flow,

where it was just for trans folks.

And so I started researching and diving into it and realized.

My own trans journey.

And I started really resonating with so many of the stories I started.

Understanding how deeply I've always called in certain entities,

such as shva and Shakti.

And how they themselves represent.

Gender fluidity.

And so I would say it started with service to others and then it sort


It's sort of reflected back to me and was like,

you need this as much as you're trying to give it to other people,

you need to understand the trans history of your people.

And so.

Since then I've understood.

Probably I was called to it, like more for me than anyone.

And are the Shana is the first iteration of shva and it's a

gender fluid being with breasts and lingo.

And that deity of shva and Shakti has always been so much

a part of my consciousness.

And now I understand it's because I identify as gender fluid and

non-binary, and.

That my practice always takes me there beyond co constructs beyond the

body to.

An infinite space. So it's in my history. Makes sense.

Yeah, but far in your blood.

Someone said like,

Oh, if it was.

Within you then.

If it's within you, then it was in within them. So it's,

it's within our blood.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, I can go next.

I think for me, who I would love to bring in.

Is ging, formerly known as Avala crit Farra, and.

Just having my relationship with this deity.

DD for my childhood and always seeing her as a feminine.

Mostly the mother figure or someone to.

Speak to in terms of uncertainty or in need of.

Help or relief from distress.

But then over the course of my own becoming.

Me outside of any gender norms.

Really began to see and understand.

And want to explore and like dig deeper into the history of how she.

Was, or is perceived more as a she, but how her origins came from.

You know, the Lotus Sutra, where.

She was more,

had more of a male presence or an embodiment and actually.

How she's revered in.

Trans queer groups as like this revered.

Queer icon, you know?

Actually having.

Beyond as a Bodhi Safa beyond.

Gender norms and general just having.

This essence of peer embodiment of compassion, mercy.

And spirit and knowing that, that.

Fit so much of who I am in general.

Not having.

An association.

With these gender constructs that have been.

Enforced within the 3000 years of.

Confucian patriarchal.

You should be this, that kind of lineage or history.

So really transmuting that and.

Finding solace, knowing that she's.

Been perceived in so many ways by the people who call upon.

Their name and that we can do the same.

Like as human beings, we can do the same.

We are all living bohi sofas by our own nature.

So, yeah, I, I think it was really the last two,

three years of me becoming more.

Sure of myself and the way I carry and hold myself.

As a, as a living being.

And then just wanting to learn more about gawing and how to follow.

That path. Thanks.

Beautiful. Mm-hmm .

And this is in shadow to.

And my exploration was.

Gender fluidity.

And within deities really began with me working with deities

and calling them into my life.

And then asking to work with me.

And I think it took me to really.

Step a to step back and really look into my own ancestral

lineage and oh, Dani and the philosophy.

Philosophies of how we envision the different facets of the divine and

the creator.

To begin to understand the.

Dualistic aspect of both the masculine and the feminine,

not from a gender standpoint, but just from an energetic standpoint.

And that these two energies,

the masculine and the feminine exist in everything and in everyone.

And being able to come to an understanding of that balance.

And the way that the different.

Date and old, which we call them Irish or Abata.

A really.

Can have the, they both have the masculine, the feminine aspects.

One of the.

De that I work with is O shimary is,

is the deity of the rivers and of water and a flow.

And of change and she is known as a dating for those who've come to

her seeking reprieve from.

Society who are outside the bounds and the labels and the boxes.

And don't see themselves reflected in society.

And for me that those are LGBTQ folks. Those are queer folks.

Those are.

Folks who don't fit within the.


And especially as someone who embodies that in between being able to


The the beautiful balance.

And the beautiful.

Embodiment of both within her.

Within them as I, I tend to just use general neutral them,

even though she is a goddess.

She also has this fierce protective.

Destructive quality to her that isn't associated with traditional.

Like women or traditional gender femininity.

And so it was when I began to work more closely with these.

Ladies and I began to embody their energy.

And I began to get a deeper understanding of the roots of.

Or the BHI Marie or Collie ma who I also work with that I began to

really understand.

What it meant for me as a healer and as a being who embodies both in

the, in between.

But what does it mean as an expression of the creation and the cosmic


And the limiting nature that.

We live in because of the white supremacist, Patriot of the society,

that they've kind of been conflated and labeled in the way they have.


Yeah, that deeply resonates. I.

I think I just had this like hunger.

For it, like there was.

So much like beauty and emergence that was happening.

In terms of.

What I was learning about my spiritual.

Practice thus far,

like I was trained first in Alexandria in witchcraft.

Before that I was Jehovah's witness.

And so just to have that huge.

Change in spiritual practice.

And then to start to question.

Well, where are my people in, in this practice?

So letting go of that and then coming into.

My practice my life now of who do.


I feel like in Hudu I found that there wasn't a need.

For gen for gender. And I had so much more room to like,

Play and be with myself and not have to refer to my power.

My energy or anything that of my tools that I find within myself

in a gendered way, it actually felt more.

Like referring to nature.

Rather than referring to.

Like, you know,

Like gender, like fi like, yeah, it, it, it just didn't make sense.

And so then I just wanted,

I wanted to know about like stories and folklore.


I could see myself in.

And so then I started to explore and then I started finding how,

like a lot of creation stories.

Especially across that, like, like Afro Gasper, Pantheon,

like have.


That run the gambit of genders.

And they're able to move in and out of genders.

And it's not even a question. It's not even kind of like.

Us like that, like that was what makes them separate from the whole.

That is just simply a part of their essence in being, and so.

Then I just started to like, be really curious about like, okay,

then like where did, how did we go from this, this beautiful Pantheon?

Of beings and existence to kind of like this very like.

Feminine energy, masculine energy. And it just goes back to whiteness.

But, yeah, that's, that's,

that's where my curiosity came and I found that I was able,

once I started to explore more.

And find deities that had already resonated with.

That I was able to kind of.

Also deepen my own understanding of who I was.

Because I didn't have to categorize it like, oh,

this is my feminine energy coming through.

This is just a part of who I am coming through.

That is an aspect that this is how some people define it.

As other people define it. Very different.

Differently. Yeah.

So you, you talked about like the beginning of your journeys,

but where has it taken you now? Like where.

Where are you out? You, you y'all called in a couple of.

Eighties that you, that you work with.

Yeah. We're where are you at with it now?

So most recently I was hired as a teaching artist.

For fab lab, which had this.

San Francisco bay area based.

But had this huge project.

Last may celebration of life, queer ancestors.

Bringing their embodied lessons back to the present.

And so of course I, I chose Guang.

In to be that vessel.

The the, the, the teacher.

Of self love radical.

Acceptance. And I created this very immersive.

Facilitated program.

Where we all,

all of us in the group at year BWE art center.

Kind of took on this.

Radical 33 transformation exercise,

according to the Lotus Sutra.

Of Ferra later known as Guang.

Ganging had the power to transform 33 times in different shapes and

figures really.

To be whoever.

You know, anyone needed at the time, you know, if you needed.

Her presence to come in the form of a child.

Or a mother or a father.

That's that's what would happen?

And so taking on that kind of exercise to embody the

different parts, the many,

many multitude parts of our own self-expression was one of the lessons

that I love to share.

And it was really fun to be able to see.

Youth kids.

To their mothers to.

Yeah, just like queer.

Men just embody these different.

Versions of who they truly are.

To like really access that true.

Essence beyond what we look like or.

The color of our skin, the gender.

That was assigned to us.

Yeah. And not to mention.

The, the other lesson of buying was that she.

They have multiple names. The.

One who sees and hears and perceives that cries of the world.

To the, the goddess of mercy.

Compassion. And so.

Giving everyone in the group,

a chance to share their true name outside of their given one from

their parents. What would that look like?

So he got a lot of creative.

Voices in the room and.

You know, I just feeling that they could come out of that experience.

Really having a choice.

And, and knowing that it can be.

Anything, anything that they want to.

So that was really, really rad. And I, I like to continue.

To being more of those workshops in the future.

Also incorporating movement to really move and dance to those.

Different shapes we occupy within.

Outside of our imagination.


my heart just got so happy.

Just thinking of like,

These different aged people.

Just like embracing.

The that seed you planted.

Wow. Yeah, the CA can you, can you share.

Maybe something that, you know, this kind of come alive for people.

In that experience.

Yeah, I think there's a component of being.

Seen and witnessed that I had like partner diad exercises,

doing those shape shifting exercises and.

Really like seeing someone's soul eye gazing that whole.

Peer potent intimate.

Connecting force.

Being like, I can be silly even though I might present as serious.

On the first impression, but like diving deep, like how,

how much you can reveal yourself within.

You know, just five minutes of exquisite attention. Non-judgment.

And so I think coming out.

A lot of folks had the.

Beautiful comment of like, that was, that was amazing.

That was an amazing experience for me to like,

Access a part of myself that I've, that I know existed, but.

Just needed time to play and kind of dig through. So.

I think liberation in that sense is just permission to be, you know,

just all encompassing.

Permission to be, which is what Guang.

Provides is.

Just be yourself, whatever that is, whatever that looks like.

And I I'd imagine all of the deities that we're bringing in today


Similar nuanced ways of bringing that forth.

One sad.  .

I love so much of what you just called in queerness being.

Expansive playful, liberatory.

Spirituality is liberatory and expansive.

And I love that you weave those together.

And one of my favorite things is.

Seeing indigenous wisdom traditions.

How much the intersect, when we peel back whiteness.

And we look through the lens of it.

As it was.

And just as in this idea of deity is having multiple forms.

In Indian tradition, it's the same.

We call them Avodas and while Heini and Krishna and knew they're all

coming in as they're needed in the moment.

Just like you said,

and then Neto talked about how we are just.

Reflections of the divine. So I know.

Queer trans is exist,

cuz I'm looking at all of you and all of you represent that divinity.

In your.

and it's just, Raden dope. .

Yes, .


Yeah, I love that. So just in case y'all don't know,

we are all divine up in here. .

Love the affirmation. .

Claiming our.

Yeah, I.

This has been such an expansive part of the conversation because it.

Play part really.

Really resonates with me and going back to the idea that we are all

expressions and facets of the divine and the creator.

Knowing that I have all of these parts and facets within me being able

to work with the date that I work with just allows me to have more

access to them.

And to be able to use them as a way of channeling the healing.

Energy that I do work with.

And being, and,

and showing the different expressions and aspects and facets in a way

that speaks true to who I am.

And the energy that I carry, but also to the wisdom.

That some of these charities.

Want to share with the world because.

I think in, in the kind of conflation of like gender and.

Energy we've lost so much of the nuance and complexity of what.

These different energies can provide for us and what they can do for

us. If we take away the idea of.

How we must show up in the world and what is acceptable or not

acceptable. So in the ways that I've worked with them,


It's being and allowing.

Myself, the fullness of being, I think I used a lot of bees in there.

While also.

Using that energy as a way of ushering in the same residence and


so that they can too see their own divinity and access the greater

awareness of their, their truth.

And I must also say.

Like in addition to that is.

When we talk about like, especially in the.

Evil Dani philosophy.

The ways that the different date is also take on.

Animals and different animals and creatures and that connection to.

Other living beings that is also exists within us. So I think, I mean,

this is a little bit different than gender or cuz animals.

We've they have sexes and stuff, but.

Being able to see beyond gender and also see beyond human form.

And anbody the different characteristics that those.

Animals and being can offer us.

And the wisdom that exists within that.

I even wanna offer. There are trans and queer animals.

Sea horses take on.

From a more paternal role to a maternal role.

There are other animals that have both sex organs, plants often.

When you mentioned goddess seeing yourself through nature rather than

gender, I was like,


Like sometimes I feel like pollen and then sometimes I'm the fruit and

like how expansive that is like.

Nature is just so.

Vast and experienced in that way.

And isn't shackled by binaries and I'm like,

that's a way cool way to think of one  and I'm gonna refer to

myself more as flowers.

And fruit and pollen now. Yes.

Yes. I think it brings in that play again,

going back to the play and like,

General Choco when you were speaking about like,

Like bringing that out in other people. And then also like around.

Animals this whole time who has been in the room with me and is

always with me is pop lake. But.

And for many, he.

Is a man for me. He is. .

Very gay.

Me a very, very gay it. And then.

And although, and.

He also takes on the form of a spider.

And he also.

For me, switches, genders.

He loves to be playful with his gender.

He loves to.

He loves to also entice other people to play with with the,

with themselves, well, with themselves, but also like.

your gender. Everyone's you can't you people can't see this,

but they're kind of agreeing with playing with yourself anyway.


I wasn't able to kind of access.

That part of him and allow him to C like,

Kind of deeper come into me and like really rest in.

In my being until I heard other stories.


Other deities outside of.

My lineage and my spiritual practice that.

That reminded me like, oh, snap.

No, this is like also here too.


Yeah. I definitely think that animals are a part of this.


Why not.

Why not. I feel that.

That really reminds me of.

I've been working with Shadi too.

And so Shadi is a character in the Maha.

And I was told the story growing up.

That it's this great war.

And it's between two families and the bug bud GEHA is the apex of this

story that most people know.

And I was never told about this character because why would transness

and queerness be told to me.

By my family who hasn't reclaimed that, like I had to come do that.

And she Candi is a trans man.

Who ends up being the most pivotal soldier in the end of the battle

and defeating sort of like the enemy.

And because of his transness, he's not accepted fully.

And so they refuse to.

Fight him because they claim that he's not a real man and,

but his transness creates.

Like that power and that out of the box.

Embodiment that allows him to defeat the enemy. And I.

Resonate so deeply with that, because I think.

The protector in me is so relied on,

but it's been so shunned and I just wanna call into the space,

how much learning about transness.

Within communities like the Heger community and within deities,

you also see that.

Trans and queer folks have been.

Always ostracized and always shunned as well.

And how can we carve out?

Safe spaces for us finally.

And for these deities, because that's part of the history.

And I just, I just wanted to call that in as well. Like,

as you talk about someone showing up and being playful with it,

making it feel safe for us to go there. All of us.


Hmm. I'm thinking of like the, the people throughout.

History, not specific ideas, but folks throughout history,

especially in the United.

States and.


Queer culture in the United States and how we've had to form our own


And what it like kind of, re-situate what it means to,

to have a family and what it means to protect another person and

protect ourselves. We've had to reinvent ourselves.

So many times.

And it shows up in spirituality too, of like,

We've we've re.

Re redefined what our DDS look like and what they represent.

And there's absolutely nothing wrong with them.

That because as they've created us,

we are also creating them. It's a, it's a two-way street and it's an,

it's an ever flowing like cycle.

So thinking about that and just thinking about the future.

And what deeds will look like in the future.

Because conversations like this are happening.

And the people throughout history who are con continually adapting.

To what has happened.

The the good, the bad, the ugly, all of it.

That the DeeDees are going to reflect that.

And so I'm, so  I'm way for you to be like, I'm the mother.

Like, yes, you are the mother.


Yes. And.

God is that, that brings up for me. What.

What's been sitting with me is like,

In all Dani and evil philosophy and spirituality,

a lot of our deities, as we know,

it has been so steeped in the gender binary.

And, you know, because.

Many of these beliefs in practice were demonized by the church and by

the missionaries, it makes me wonder, like,

If I could go back into the ancient past, was this still the case?


Where we still so genderize in terms of the dates and you know,

this date is for women and this date is for men because there are some

cultures traditionally that were just more.

Structured that way. And I also know that.

There are many Western.

African cultures where it's not that.

You know, binary in terms of gender. And so for me,

in my part of my practice has been.

How can I queer this up? How can I put a little pizazz on it?

Because I am my ancestors' greater streams.

And in me doing this ancestral.

Healing work and taking on their gifts and abilities.

It's also on me to.

Put forward into the future,

how I conceive of these deities and how I want to work with them.

And that's perfectly acceptable.

In that.

The way that I envision some of these babies is moving more towards

transness and a blurring of.

Feminine masculine gender. Like none of that really matters.

In the sense of how it's felt and embodied.

Mm, mm-hmm .

I love this because it's decentering the written word, which was used.

In order to have one person's and one group's narrative.

Dominate because the indigenous and the ancient way was oral

tradition. If you are transmitting.

This information about this de in this moment you have.

The divine right. To tell the story.

And then that's how these myths are made. These how the that's,

how these mythologies are created was oral storytelling.

So I love that and I agree like full permission to.

Co Weve, what deities.

Mean, and how they show up.

Yeah, which honestly begs the question of like,

it's really up to us and queer liberatory spaces to bring these


To everyone's knowledge, you know, to future.

Generations to come to the youth to know that there are prime


That we can look to for courage.

And acceptance. Yeah.

And then.

I like to go along with the idea of co weaving and then like really


Into our power.

As we, we.

Not only can like.

Define how we.

Relate to our deities and our spiritual practice.

But we can also have conversations with these DODs. It's not a, like,

again, it's not a one way street.

So  there. There's plenty of stories.

Throughout time of how, you know,

We as humans have, you know,

Talked to our Dees, talked to our ancestors and had.

We are just, we have just as much wisdom as they do.

So even though in the past,

DDS might not have all Dees might not have reflected.

What we now see as a very beautiful, vast.

Gender experience.

We can now give them that wisdom and imbue them with those powers.

And they are grateful to us. I think for that.

Because we are just like heightening their.

Their power and their, and their range.

Yeah. Yeah. So, so.

That being said.

What are, y'all like ready to kind of.

Release around some of the practices of the past.

In your cultures and like what.

Do you want to retain.

So I come from.

A society that operates through the caste system. And I have.

Cast privilege. I am Brahman.

And one thing that I absolutely wants to release within and without


Casteism and we see this across.

Societies where really.

So much systemic oppression happens from classism.

It happens from restricting resources from groups.

And hoarding resources.

And so I wanna speak to the privilege that I have in that way and how

I wish to wield it.

And I also want to release patriarchy, which is.

Interwoven so much with cast as well. And the history of India.

And patriarchy creates harm. It's violent.

And I would love to release that. And I think.

A big piece of that is even harkening back to what you're saying.


This is all about relationships. We are in relationship to duties,

we're in relationship to each other and into the earth. And so why,

how can we create consensual?

Relationships across.

All beings and all entities and all spectrums and.

That's something that I would like to usher in.

In space of those.

Was that was so beautifully said, I love it when people.

Rephrase my words, cuz I am not the best.

My word. Thank you. Misha beautifully said yes.

Yeah, this is tip here.

Along the lines of what Misha is bringing in, like really.

Looking at patriarchy within even the Chinese culture of.

This, this myth, this like delusion, this untruth of how.

Silence or enduring pain.

Is a sign of strength.

Especially for women to, to, to not say.

What's making you uncomfortable to not say.

That the man is bringing us down and losing our voice to not even

be able to feel our body, to, to feel the, the truth of it.

The aliveness of it, the anger and the rage of it.

And you're in push back to.

To, to just make other people feel comfortable around the status quo.

I, I would really like to release that idea and that vision and that


Belief system because that's not helping.

Anyone at all?

It's it's aggravating. ,

it's aggravating in my senses and in my spirit, as you know,

A gender fluid body.

But also having to have.

Done the work to, you know, remove.

Those tight con constraining.

Norms that I grew up with.

Which is also of course,

We should presented is tied with class tied with.

Privilege, you know, the more, the more.

It feels like for me personally, the more.

Successful you are the more.

Tighter, you know,

you feel like you have to be to be able to have the same.

Source of.


but that doesn't have to be so really wanting the relinquish that idea

for sure.

In shadow.

The first thing that came up to me was in terms of what's release or

what I would like to release, not like personally,

but just from the spiritual practices and the work that I do in

general from.

Kind of zoomed out level is shame.

Around these practices.

The trauma around these practices.

Many of us come from ancestors who weren't allowed to.

Practice our indigenous and ancestral beliefs who were told that they

were wrong, that they were evil.


Thus many of our practices,

especially west African indigenous practices, one aren't,

which aren't as easily as a flexible, accessible.

Have been hidden, have been stored away and.

I think being able to release that shame.

Shame that was brought to us by west the white, you know,

supremacist patriarchal.

You know, hegemon as well as being able to take.

The ancestral gifts, the knowledge,

the wisdom that lives within each and every one of us.

Is really important to me as I.

Go deeper into my own spiritual practice. I think something that a,

a thread that is coming up is the power of the feminine and not just


But the energy of the feminine energy and the,

the strength and power of that, we talk a lot about patriarchy.

And when I think about.

How do we kind of deconstruct and dismantle patriarchy?

I think of going back to our creative.

Sexual energy coming back to our life force energy,

coming back to the seat and center of.

Our humanity that exists within us.

And, and that energy has been TA termed classified as the feminine.

And the power of that. So I would like to take that.

That energy forward, the energy of.

Coming back to wholeness and balance within ourselves.

Cuz as I do this day work, as I.

And, and when I even think of day work, I think of it as God work,

creative work, because these daddies are just facets of the creator.

So they are actually the creator, the universe and of itself.

It's coming back to wholeness and coming back to the,

the truth of who I am as a human, which is.

A creator.

That part right there about created.

Yes. That's, that's where I feel like I really want to.

Release, but then also hold on to is like,


What, what is possible as creator?

Like if I'm a divine being.

All of what I am is worthy.

And so what can I create from that space?

And whatever I'm creating.

Isn't determined by my gender.

Or my sexuality, it simply just is because I love it. And to being.

And so that for me is something I wanna carry and pass on.

Is that generative?

That generative intention.

And that, that thrival mentality instead of,

instead of survival learning from the survival mentality we had to

have, but what does it mean to take that wisdom that we have from our

ancestors of survival?

And birth something new.

Okay. We are, we are almost at time, but please.

Tell I, I wish.

I now know that this is not enough time to have this discussion,

but I hope that this has planted little seeds within each of you.

To continue these discussions.

I know you're all already having 'em and hopefully building

connections, but.

Where can we find y'all?

Where do you be at what you be up to?

I can start. So in shadow tr.

You can find me.

On the social media platform usings of them.

Which in the process of being rebirthed again.

So I am on YouTube usings of them.

TikTok usings of them and stuff.

Using some of them.

And if you like to check on my website, he for liberation.

So H the letter four

So that's where you can find me for now.

Oh, I love that.

definitely will be finding you using things for them. .

This is T here. You can find me on my Instagram platform.

TIF R xray.

T I F F R E X, R E. I.

I am also, my website is Tiffany. that's T I F F a N Y L I N. Dot co.

And if you just happen to be around Loney territory.


I can find me giving Chinese Astro readings at Teon find teas in

Berkeley. That would be really great to just.

Gaze and have a, a dropped in conversation over the medicine of tea.

Yeah, thank you all.

Hello Misha here.

You can find me at alchemistic studio. So alchemistic is a.

Alchemical word between alchemy and mystic.

So it's a L C H E M.

Y S T I C studio.


Alchemistic studio on IG Facebook.  all the places.


I'm in Brooklyn, New York or Lepe land. So if you're ever in NYC,

you can also hit me up.

And I would love to meet people in real life as well.

Definitely something I'm craving.

Thank you. And also congrats to Misha on finishing your first.

Festival. What was the festival called? I know it was around pleasure,

but can you drop it?

Mm-hmm  so that was QT pleasure for us.

Queer trans pleasure Fest.

Calling in the work of Audrey Lord, Adrian Murray brown,

somatic healing.

Queerness transness and divinity,

and it was exquisite to have the speakers and all the participants

just sit in the container for four days and really explore. Pleasure.

From grief all the way through sex and intimacy and everything in

between. So thank you so much.

Man. Congrats. I know that was a labor of love.

Alright. Y'all well,

Thank you again for.

Being on the first recorded episode.

Of season four.

I'm taking away so much, but I'm curious,

what are y'all taking with you into this?

Big wild world from our conversation.

Three new friends.

Hm, best deep bracelets.

Just  .

In shadow, I'm bringing in so much hope,

like look at all of us from our different backgrounds and ancestral

lineages who are doing the work.

And trying to create new pathways of healing and liberation and

embodiment and truth.

I it's, it's really exciting to see, and I'm honored to be here.

Hmm. Yeah. I'm.

Lin here bringing in a lot of gratitude.

And awe and inspiration.

The ways we can all channel.

Our messages and different mediums.

And in, in hopes of bringing.

The intellectual, the mind into the heart and.

Into the body.

Yeah, just always wanting to bring it back to the body and, and,

and to feel that felt sense of gratitude and inspiration and.

And courage and, and I feel that right now with you all, so.

Thank you.

Thank you. Y'all.

Thank you God. Yeah.

Thank you. Thank you. And please go follow these amazing folks.

They're doing such beautiful work.


Really stuffing into their elderhood themselves.

So, yes, yes. Go, go check them out.